Thanks for sharing your story. I found your arguments very impressing. My father also is still in, but I don't have the luck to have a decent conversation with him. His mind is way too closed. Keep up planting seeds of doubt in your sister's heart. God will do the rest. ;-)
Prins Vaillant
JoinedPosts by Prins Vaillant
-
54
CONVERSATION WITH MY JW SISTER LAST NIGHT......
by Mary inwell i guess this was a long time in coming, but yesterday afternoon, my family all got together and had a bbq at my parents' home.
when my parents left at around 6:00pm to drive my one non-dub sister home, my other sister and brother in law (former elder), stayed for a while longer.. we've never discussed my leaving 'the truth' a couple of years ago but she brought it up last night and we started talking about the religion.
everyone had been drinking but no one was drunk, so alot got said.
-
-
-
52
What are you reading?
by Hortensia init's rather quiet on the jwd forum tonight - probably you are all out partying, eh?
i'm wondering what's in the pile of books by your chair or bed?
i have a couple of mysteries, robert barnard's newest one and a really old arthur upfield.
-
-
Prins Vaillant
I have read: Next of kin, What Chimpanzees have tought me about who we are. (Roger Fouts) Read this and see that we - humans - aren't the only ones who use language. Another Watchtower-myth! Prince Vaillant
-
39
My Bethel Experience final chapter
by new boy inthere were other people who either killed themselfs or tried to kill themselfs while they were at "the house of god.
one person who did kill himself was richard wheelock, press room overseer ......he jumped out of a window at the watchtower farm one day.......it seemed, he was never quite the same after his wife "willy" died..she seemed to be the only one that he could relate to.......which would make sence.....because he sure couldn't relate to any of us in the press room..........he would come over to our press and say "here is the work... get in out".......then just walk away.......he was not the type of person you would really want to talk to anyway......but wouldn't it be nice if just now and then, like every year or two, they might ask you how you were doing?.........you laugh.......but its true......i asked a friend of mind who was the press operator of press # 6 which at the time was one of the three biggest presses at bethel.
he had been in the press room for 4 full years.
-
-
Prins Vaillant
Thanks. Read them all.
-
17
Do you feel as if you have to justify why you aren't JW anymore?
by JH inare we playing there game, by having to justify ourselves, why we don't go to meetings anymore, or why we left the org?.
-
-
Prins Vaillant
You can't justify it, because they never accept the perspective that people really can change their vision on "the Truth". Telling them that you think they are a cult is unacceptable. So they prefer to believe that persons who leave are 'haters' of the truth, independent thinkers, lurked into Satan's snares or infidels. You can't just say them: "I feel no compulsion to join meetings again, because they bore me to death". So what do they think? You are too busy with "the things" of the world. Not seeking the Kingdom first. I sure know one thing. Don't need meetings about "hotel reservations" when nobody in the kingdom hall needs hotels. Not interested in how proclaimers can put in 15 minutes of "field service" and why the 'service committee' must meet to approve such a request. "Why are we against abortion?" In 5 minutes and 3 bible quotes further, they know all the answers on all possible subjects. Life is much more complex. No easy solutions for complex problems. Bottom line: you can't justify it! They stick to their own opinions why people leave.
-
11
Went to the Kingdom Hall after 8 years
by Prins Vaillant inyesterday i went to the kingdom hall (i was curious wether the little girls from my own jw-time were now gorgeous young women).
a few of them have been 'evolved' ;) into beautiful young women.
first of all, i would like to say that i was so happy when the meeting was over.
-
-
Prins Vaillant
Thank you for the compliment. I live in a Flemish region near Aalst. We speak Dutch (same as in the Netherlands, sometimes referred to as Flemish, even by people here, but the official languages of Belgium are Dutch (6 million people), French (4 million people) and German (20 000 people). My dad is still in. Now they are hoping that I will return in good old "Prodigal son"-tradition. ;) The hall I went to is new too. It was quite impressive.
-
11
Went to the Kingdom Hall after 8 years
by Prins Vaillant inyesterday i went to the kingdom hall (i was curious wether the little girls from my own jw-time were now gorgeous young women).
a few of them have been 'evolved' ;) into beautiful young women.
first of all, i would like to say that i was so happy when the meeting was over.
-
-
Prins Vaillant
Yesterday I went to the Kingdom Hall (I was curious wether the little girls from my own JW-time were now gorgeous young women). Indeed! A few of them have been 'evolved' ;) into beautiful young women. First of all, I would like to say that I was so happy when the meeting was over. I choosed attending the Theocratic School and Service meeting because that is a certain way of seeing different faces. (Spreading the chances of a boring speaker). Nothing new in 8 years! Same scriptures, same speakers with teaching capabilities for the mentally injured! And in the service meeting they were talking 25 (!) minutes about hotel reservations, though I know that in the past decennium never ever one single witness in that area takes an hotel. And what to think about a young lady (18 years old), with brains too, enjoying answering 'Jehovah' to a question of an elder. They are all eager to answer week in week out, year in year out, the same old things. I was bored like I was never bored before. What struck me was a part about bringing in your field service report. The elder told about the possibility of reporting only a quarter of an hour (a special privilege for the persons with for example rare diseases ;)). Can you believe the elder literally told the (great) crowd: if you want to be in that arrangement, you have to request it, and the Service Committee will decide wether or not you can report in that way! Come on! How closer to the scribes can you get? No not the secretary alone, a group of older men will come together to decide wether you can put in your 15 minutes monthly or not. What about focusing on the 'important things'. Isn't that a scripture too? I told my opinion to a sister. And she responded: "Jesus said that whoever is faithful in little things will be faithful in greater things as well". Ok, so every little thing must be carefully considered by the Service Committee. For every action a bible quote. They still got it!
-
8
Using Movies to stimulate witnesses independent thinking
by Prins Vaillant intoday i have seen the movie ?pleasantville?.
two young people get absorbed into a 50?s tv-soap.
all is black and white.
-
-
Prins Vaillant
One poster says (on imdb): "It's just a retelling of the Adam and Eve creation myth. The 'black and white' people don't exist in dualistic reality - they are 'Garden of Eden' people - sinless and boring. Once creation starts, you get the dualism of 'good and evil', 'right and wrong', and the free will that goes along with options. Notice that the black and white people just do everything perfectly and without any deviation"
Exactly my thoughts...
-
8
Using Movies to stimulate witnesses independent thinking
by Prins Vaillant intoday i have seen the movie ?pleasantville?.
two young people get absorbed into a 50?s tv-soap.
all is black and white.
-
-
Prins Vaillant
Today I have seen the movie ?Pleasantville?. Two young people get absorbed into a 50?s TV-soap. All is black and white. Sex is an unknown concept, everyone got along swell, and life was fairly easy. There even doesn?t exist rain. It is a sort of paradise-like situation. Everyone is playing their roles. Husbands get home from work: ?Hello honey, I?m home? and wifes prepare dinner. Everything repeats itself. No changes allowed.
When we first see Pleasantville's citizens, all of them are colorless stereotypes. As they begin to open up and become real people, color seeps into their world. Maybe watching this kind of movies opens up the closed witnessmind. Maybe they see similarities with their borglike environment.
Another great movie to give to our witness friends is The Virgin Suicides. In my opinion an eye-opener to see how rigid rules forced upon kids and youngsters leads to disaster. Can any witness miss the absence of freedom in their own households?
And to end with... what about The Elephant Man (based on a true story)... A man with a serious facial deformation... used and abused by greedy men (showing him in freak shows, ...). Another one to rethink our ?Creator? and his so-called ?Perfect is his activity? (Deuteronomy 32:4)
Freedom has a price. The world where we live in.
Maybe you have other movie tips?
Prins Vaillant
-
-
-
Prins Vaillant
I'm looking for a job now. 7 years ago I delivered advertisement papers ... to people's homes. For about six months, while pioneering. That was my longest job for then. Now, I'm an anthopologist.
Greetings,
Prins V
-
20
why has god permitted wickedness?
by candidlynuts intmo commented on reading books which gave different views on why under the crisis of conscience thread.
all i've ever known is the jw view.
that he is giving satan time to prove mankind cant lead themselves.. what are other views?
-
-
Prins Vaillant
Neuroscience accepts the overwhelming evidence that mental states depend on brain states. Is there room for a robust kind of free will where agents can act as independent causes of the brain states which in turn cause our actions. This kind of free will seems necessary if one accepts Christian tenets about morality, justice, and salvation. The problem is that our mental states are determined by the brain's physical properties. Because we cannot choose the physical properties of our brains we cannot really choose our own mental states or our actions. It is an interesting fact that this point is uncontroversial when we are talking about a patient suffering from psychosis due to a chemical imbalance in the brain but resisted when we are talking about people with normally functioning brains. What differentiates the psychotic from the mentally-healthy individual is the difference in the physical properties of their brains. The way a mentally-healthy person reasons about situations and decides what courses of action to take are just as determined by his normally-functioning brain as the psychotic's reasoning and decision-making are determined by his malfunctioning brain. This raises some interesting questions about moral responsibility. If a psychotic becomes a serial killer due to a chemical imbalance in his brain, does this exempt him from responsibility for his actions? If so, where do we draw the line for when brain states exempt someone from moral responsibility since all of our actions are ultimately determined by our brain states? Does this exempt all of us from moral responsibility?
What about the dubious arguments that quantum indeterminacy leaves room for robust free will? Quantum effects are quite negligible on the level of neurons, that overall brain function is based on large networks of neurons and thus the unpredictable behavior of a single neuron would make little difference in the brain as a whole, and the random fluctuations associated with quantum indeterminacy are minute compared to thermodynamic fluctuations or fluctuations in the blood supply to the brain. This latter point is especially poignant because even if quantum fluctuations did occur at the level of neurons their effects would be 'drowned out' by the much larger deterministic sorts of bodily fluctuations.
Rather than finding a place for free will, indeterminacy could be used to excuse a person of responsibility for his actions.
Determinism is the position that all events--including human actions--are determined by the causes that preceded them. Indeterminism holds that some events are not determined by prior causes but rather occur randomly and unpredictably with no causes at all. If any of our actions occur randomly, without cause, then those actions are not under our control. If we set up a machine to 'decide' whether or not to shoot someone based on the results of a random number generator (odds meaning shoot, evens meaning do not shoot) we would not say that the machine 'freely chose' its action or was responsible for it. For this reason we cannot use quantum indeterminacy to provide free will or assign responsibility for human actions. The emerging picture strongly implies that we cannot choose otherwise than we do whether or not determinism is true. By all indications, a robust, counter-causal sort of free will is an illusion: Either human actions are completely determined by prior causes or they occasionally occur randomly for no reason at all.
Yes, thinking is dangerous ;-)
Prins V.